• Walking/Bumping into objects

    Posted by clive-varejes on December 29, 2021 at 3:23 am

    Morning/Afternoon/Evening to one and all.

    I am used to occassionally bumping into things when I am not concentrating on what I am doing or where I am going.

    However I have noticed lately that I have a few bruises that I had no recollection of bumping into something which could have caused that. They are not serious, but still there.

    I know it sounds weird but has anyone else experienced something similar?

    john-citron replied 1 year, 8 months ago 12 Members · 26 Replies
  • 26 Replies
  • toni-shapiro

    December 29, 2021 at 9:48 am

    Yes, I have experienced bumping into things as well as finding bruises that were obviously from me hitting something but I did not recall how it happened..  I don’t think it’s weird though.  One of the reasons I stopped driving was that my depth judgement was/is off.  I misjudge door openings and my balance was off which were pre my formal PD diagnosis and anw indication that something was not quite ok with me.  I continue to bump into things today but much less since a levodopa adjustment.  I still find the occasional questionable bruise but not as much. My best guess is that it happens at night getting out of bed to go to the bathroom and I forget what I bumped by the time I awake to start the day.  For a time I would act out my dreams, sometimes wildly which could have easily caused my bruising.  Do you also experience sleep disorders?


    • alan-m

      December 30, 2021 at 6:45 pm

      REM-BSD is the bane of my existence at the mo, Toni.  I can’t even be sure my wife will be in the marriage bed in the mornings, anymore.  She moves bedrooms ducking for cover at night.  The poor dear.  Don’t blame her though… I’d do the same if the situations were reversed.

  • clive-varejes

    December 30, 2021 at 12:55 am

    Thanks Toni,

    Thanks for the reply.

    My problem seems to be more a spacial hassle. I used to be able to park my car straight away with, I not sure where you are from so, 2cm/1 inch, to spare on either side, however I now find occassionally, I have to go back and forth a few times before I get it right.

    I do have seizures, although totally under control, so it may be a combination of the 2.

    So far, although now and again my dreams are more vivid, I haven’t started acting them out.


  • robert-harris

    December 30, 2021 at 1:10 pm

    In the last year or so, I have developed a decidedly klutz-like behavior. By that I mean that inadvertently knocking over water glasses, turning a corner in a hallway and walking into some poor, unsuspecting person, hands slipping on a screwdriver–I’ve never had so many “accidents” as I have recently.

    Perhaps related is that regularly I will be holding something light weight (bag with a donut, small book, ballpoint pen)while I turn my attention to something else. All of a sudden  my fingers lose the message that they are holding onto something and they (or my brain) will release their grip and I’ll drop the item. Anyone reading this “forget” to hold on to something and let it drop?

    • phinala

      January 4, 2022 at 3:12 pm

      I permanently have bruises that I have no idea where they came from, my hands seem also to have bruises and cuts on them, I still do a lot of cooking and seem to bang them a lot.

  • kevin-mcguinness

    December 30, 2021 at 2:51 pm

    I as well bump, brush into and i think i have rounded off most corners of my home. Very few black and blue marks so far.  The word “ouch” is used quite frequently.

    I too drop things all the time.  They just find a way to slip out of what used to be a secure grip.  Gravity is winning .  It is a good thing my keys are made of metal.

    • karla-burkhart

      December 30, 2021 at 4:30 pm

      I have gotten much more awkward of late. I tell myself that I don’t actually fall because I grab anything near, walls, chairs, people. I’ve met more nice people this way. I also have noticed that my depth perception is not what it used to be. Because of that, I try to be ever more vigilant when driving. My husband, however, will not admit to the same and scares the _____ out of me when he drives. I’ve also become much more adroit at knocking things over. The other day I fixed myself a big tumbler of hot cocoa and then promptly knocked over in two directions (I tried to catch it) covering my desk, bookcase, and well under the bed with hot cocoa. It would be funny if it weren’t happening more often now.

      • alan-m

        December 30, 2021 at 6:39 pm

        I so relate, Karla.  Do you find yourself getting angry or sad mostly after such episodes?  I tend to get pissed at myself, not the disease.  Not fun.  Sorry to hear yours are increasing in frequency.  I guess that its our ultimate fate to find the patience to deal with these annoying symptoms, aye?

      • robert-harris

        December 30, 2021 at 11:14 pm

        Robert B:1950 Dx: 2005

        Hi folks. A comment made by one contributor (short term memory impairment prevents my giving the name) about the younger PWPs learning something valuable from the older and more symptomatic gave me the idea of attaching, on a completely volunteer basis, the birth year and the date of diagnosis of the person posting

        . That would also be a bit more human, so that we could understand a little of where the poster is “coming from.” (For example, get a scientific calculator and some hefty analysis  software for your mainframe and you can discover that I am 71  years old and, having been diagnosed with PD in 2005, have had PD officially for 16 years. (My first tell-tale symptom was around 2100, when I lost my sense of smell and my shirt buttons signed a declaration of non agreement with my hands and stopped allowing me to button my shirts.)

        Again, we don’t want to violate  HIPPA rules, but self-disclosure of age at diagnosis and birth year  should be allowable, especially since we are  the individuals about whose medial info we would be revealing. Blog moderators?  what do  you think?


    • susanne-rheault

      January 1, 2022 at 12:43 pm

      I bump into things all the time, bruising my upper thighs for the most part. My neurologist says that this is a visual spatial issue that often comes up for Parkinson’s patients. It also shows up in my absolute inability to park the car. I no longer can judge how long the car is or  how wide so my parking is crazy.  Ultimately this inability to “see” things out of my direct range of site is making me a less safe driver. I dread losing my license so I try and go slow and avoid high-speed highways. Anyone else feeling this creeping dread?

  • clive-varejes

    December 30, 2021 at 2:52 pm

    Yea, absolutely, I do.

    Although of course it could never be that my brain and muscles have lost their coordination,  the only logical reason is that an alien spaceship flew out of the ether and the people/animals/things thereon knocked the objects out of my hand just to drive me nuts.

    Well that’s my story and I’m sticking to it……

    • alan-m

      December 30, 2021 at 4:18 pm

      Clive — your explanation makes all kinds of sense to me.  I think you’re onto something here, matey!  It might be related to the Gremlins who hide our socks on occasion, who knows?

  • joseph-t-mancini

    December 30, 2021 at 4:05 pm

    Yes, I bump into things, especially at night when I have to get up to relieve myself. I will frequently find some bruises, bumps and small cuts and wonder how I got them.

  • alan-m

    December 30, 2021 at 4:15 pm

    I can’t believe others find this an issue as well — I relate to y’all!  I’ve become a real klutz lately, Robert — and I find it difficult to back my car into a parking spot or my garage.  Hallelujah — it’s not just me losing my faculties!  Sorry if I sound excited about others misfortune; but I wasn’t sure if this issue was related to PD, or not.

    I drop a lot more things now, too Kevin. My judge of distance and proximity to objects sucks! I keep running into things (door frames, chairs, kitchen islands, etc, and I drop dishes / cups frequently). My neurologist informed me recently I suffer from “REM – DBS” — a co-morbid sleep disorder that prompts the sufferer to act out in their REM sleep — I thought the poor spatial judgement might have to do with this.

    This issue started getting worse about 18 months ago, but I thought it was somehow related to sleep apnea (I’ve had this for the past 15 years). I’ve since learnt it is a prodomal PD symptom.

    Take care all!  We’re doing it tough, to be sure — but I guess it could be a lot tougher.

  • dale

    December 30, 2021 at 4:18 pm

    Yes, I have both of those problems too.  I am not the one in our family who has PD – its my Wife – so those “little bumps & drops” are occurring without any reason other than my age of 88.


  • robert-harris

    December 30, 2021 at 5:42 pm

    Isn’t it just so bizarre that you can be standing there minding your own business when all of  sudden  you notice that you have just let go of the form you are in line to get rubber stamped, and it has floated to the ground? And with just a bit of replay analysis by your brain, you realize that you did it yourself? I would rather blame “Them” as Clive does, instead of blaming my PD, but I’ve got other odd events in my narrative to mention, too, now that we are realizing that we are all brothers and sisters with PD and not just fellow sufferers. A handful of years ago I was on vacation in France, staying for a night at a fancy hotel (it featured four-ply toilet paper and $30-a-bowl lobster bisque). These places are usually a nuisance to me because I frequently get hungry in the late evening and these high brow joints close all the kitchens after dinner. Anyway, I walked out of the hotel and down the street, and to my blessing I happened on a bistro or sandwich place. Now at that time I was experiencing gait unsteadiness–okay, I was walking like a drunk, even though “my lips had never touched the brew.” So I walked forward and veered to the left then stumbled backwards a bit. The business was light then, so I could see and  hear the two workers looking at me and commenting. I did my best to understand the menu and ordered half a roast beef sandwich. To the coda: When I got back to the hotel, I found a full-sized sandwich in the bag–and realized that the workers had been agreeing with each other that I was drunk. I mention all this just to note that the stumble-bum drunken appearance stopped a few months later and went on holiday for a couple of years. It is just now making its reappearance.

    Look for another fascinating post in a bit.


    • alan-m

      December 30, 2021 at 6:36 pm

      Wow Robert.  What a tale!  I’m not much one for travelling since my diagnosis.  I have a query for those PwP that are my age (66 years).  Can we ask if many peeps struggle with continuing working after PD?  I’m a therapist and can still speak, but are experiencing some noticeable cognitive decline.  Not that I stagger or freeze up too much (at least not yet).  But I wonder if others are, like me, unsure about striving to stay gainfully employed?

      In addition, would it be OK to ask everyone if they notice:

      • a “burning sensation” in their eyes during waking hours (not while asleep) — this happens to me mostly in the morning and just before bedtime.
      • hyper-salivation (drooling) while asleep and while awake.
      • Changes to cognition… most noticeably distractibility, disorganization, forgetfulness, and problem solving difficulties.

      Any comments from those who struggle similarly?


      • robert-harris

        December 30, 2021 at 11:54 pm

        Robert B:1950 Dx:2005

        Alan, I was going to shut up for now, but since it appears that I’m a little overmedicated right now, I will add my two cents to the topics you recently breached (or is it broached)?

        Got  drooling? The medspeak term is sialorhea. Excessive drooling might be dubbed hypersialorhea. Excessive night time drooling could be hypernocturnalsialorhea. Don’t worry about embarrassing me by asking if I suffer from it. I gladly admit that. How bad is it? Well, I’ve seriously considered keeping a kayak next to my bed to help me get to the bathroom in the middle of the night when I need to, uh, use the bathroom. But what’s really the source of disgust is the sensation of turning my head over from left to right or right to left, only to feel a cold, wet area on the pillow. ([{shudder}])

        The degree of severity waxes and wanes. Right now I’m in a period where my drooler thinks it is in competition with the California rainstorms.

        Changes in cognition.

        Let’s see. I have developed what would be difficult to deny is ADHD, but I had a little of that during the  early years, even before official diagnosis. I start a task, mess up the table with dishes or tools and then get distracted by another project. My office desk is usually  horror, but I point to a famous photograph of Albert Einstein in his office. Forgetfulness. This has been a growing issue for a year or two. (Want to make your wife upset? Just let her tell you the five tasks she has for you and then go change the oil in your car instead. I’ve tried to write down the assignments she gives, but then my PD has made my handwriting illegible, even to me. I got a D in handwriting /  penmanship in 6th grade.)

      • alan-m

        December 31, 2021 at 6:12 pm

        Robert, I’m glad you stayed up to type this note!  You’ve certainly managed to keep your sense of humor through it all, my friend.

        Thanks for the medico-speak — I shall try to remember these fancy $2.00 terms for my issues.  Makes one sound somewhat edumacated, aye?

        So your abilities to remember tasks have been declining somewhat?  My loss of memory is shocking these dayz.  My poor spouse.  She can tell me a great long story about her struggles at work and within an hour, I’ve lost most of her detail (names, times, dates, etc.)  Yet, I can quote chapter and paragraph (and what page it appeared on) of a psychological idea or notion that I read back in college 22 years ago.  I can even vaguely remember the scientific names of trees & shrubs of N. America (i.e. I was once a professional Forester in BC / AB, Canada).  Bloody strange, IMHO.

        Can we chat again sometime, Robert?  You tell great stories.  Alan

      • robert-harris

        December 31, 2021 at 9:33 pm

        Robert B:1950 Dx:2005

        Alan, you asked about employment after diagnosis.  I was working as an instructional designer and manager at a call center. I had begun to see symptoms in myself about 2004 or  2005 (dates are not guaranteed unless you have our extended warranty), mainly consisting of (1) loss of sense of smell and (2) loss of dexterity in my right hand (I couldn’t button my shirt sleeves with my right hand).  I got a referral to a neurologist who measured the electrical signal from my upper arm to my fingers and pronounced me normal.

        (In the game of Musical Neurologists, this same man was assigned to me a few years later when my then current Neuro left town. I asked this guy what percentage of his patients were Parkinson’s sufferers. He said, “Oh, about 15 percent.” By that time, I had attended several PD presentations and workshops and free lunches, and they had all warmly recommended seeing not just a plain vanilla neurologist, but someone experienced in movement disorders who specialized in PD.)

        So that was my last visit to that doctor. Anyway,  now that I’ve made this narrative needlessly longer, I will continue developing the topic sentence.

        A few years later (as I said, no guarantees without Platinum card) I noticed that when I was presenting a PowerPoint deck to a group of prospective customers, my  voice would occasionally choke with emotion, making it difficult to keep  speaking clearly. The experience was mild at first, making me think, “Maybe no one is noticing.” After a couple more  trips across the US, I finally visited the Vice President and told him about  the issue. He said I was doing a fine job and that here was a ticket to the Overland Park office, where I was  to speak about the many awards the business had won.

        Before the team left for Kansas, I heard the Vice President talking to my Director  about the coming meeting. He basically acknowledged that I choked  up a couple of times during each presentation AND THAT WAS  THE REASON HE USED ME. He told my Director that choking up showed how “invested” and “serious” and “committed” I was to the training. It was an “emotional connection” that played well. It was clear well before  2013 that the loss of emotional control was another sign of PD. (Anyone else  have this problem?) At home, watching a movie on TV, whenever something good happened (the hero finally frees the girl from the burning building or the girl finally frees the hero from his self indulgence) I would suddenly break out in pronounced sobs. It’s an odd thing: I would be reading aloud a passage of something, making proper headway, when WHAM my speech became distorted, my throat choked up, and whatever noises I could make would not pass above 1.2 on the Frimpson Scale of Effective Emotive Enunciation.

        Sitting quietly in my office, I am effective and untroubled. But talking to others is the deal breaker. So far, in my Tuesday night Bible study, my  voice and emotions have broken only about two times over 6 weeks of classes of about 90 to 120 minutes per week. (Oh, other than seeing the “good guys” win, I cannot identify an emotional trigger.)

        Bottom Line: (which you should have read first and skipped Dr. Bob ‘s malarkey): Make your deficits work for you. (Perhaps we can explore the implications of this idea further later on.


      • alan-m

        December 31, 2021 at 10:16 pm

        I appreciate your openness and honesty, Robert.  I notice myself tearing up at movies — silly me, I noticed it just recently watching the final episode of “The Big Bang”  when Sheldon paid tribute to the people i his life that made his procurement of the Nobel Prize for Physics!

        I think I notice feeling whakama (Maori for shamed) in these moments.

        Maybe we can explore these (and other) similar issues in future.  I’d like that a lot.  Alan

  • robert-harris

    December 30, 2021 at 6:29 pm

    For awhile, my neurologists would ask me regularly, “Do you  experience hallucinations?” and I would say, “Nope.” Then, after they stopped asking, I did have one. I looked out at a parking lot that suddenly did a wave movement–that sort of traveling ripple that moves across the ground. That was it, done,  gone, where’s the popcorn? Now, for about the last year, I have been having what I would call regular hallucinations. They are always of a similar sort: a shadowy figure (person) moves from in back of my visual field and along the side of my view, only to disappear.  They are not frightening, not interesting, not colorful. In fact, my hallucinations are downright cheap–no sound, no color, no plot, and very brief. So wimpy are they that I don’t even find them a nuisance.

    Regarding bouncing off the furniture. A friend and fellow sufferer has told me that he often has violent attacks of thrashing around while asleep. I can now commiserate a bit, since I have begun kicking the bed post. (Currently I sleep on the floor next to the bed, so when my leg flies with gusto, it occasionally encounters the northwest bedpost.)

    The genuinely sad thing that has happened to me recently is that I had to choose to give up driving. Here’s what happened. While I was on my way to some innocent amusement like Harbor Freight or Home Depot,  I noticed that I was  experiencing double vision. It got worse. (What happens, apparently, is that, as you all know, dopamine carries the brain’s orders to the muscles. When the brain sends the message to the muscles in the eyes to line up and look for traffic, the PD sufferer’s brain says, “Just try to make me, pal.” So each eye lines up on a different place and I see double.

    Worse, I am  experiencing “visual field issues,” meaning that part of the visual area of my right eye has stopped working. The strange (I hate to use the word “bizarre” too often) effect is that, for example, I will say to myself, “Now where is my phone?” and then scan the room carefully, only to find nothing. Then I will change rooms and hunt everywhere. Ultimately, I will look in the room I started with, only to see my phone in plain sight. I tell my wife, when I have roamed all over the house only to see it in the place where I began my quest, “I guess they brought it back from the antimatter universe.” That can be funny when all you’re looking for is a coffee mug or a water bottle or a cell phone. But one time when I was driving through a parking lot, another car suddenly appeared from nowhere and we almost altered each other’s sheet metal. Worse, I once was going to make a left turn from a stop. I looked left and right twice, as I always do, and the way was clear. Then, just as I was about to step on the accelerator, I gave the streets a third look–and there was a kid in the street, right where I had already looked twice.

  • alan-m

    December 30, 2021 at 7:27 pm

    Thanks for these precious noticings, Robert.  It gives many of us a “heads up” as to waht to watch for — now and in  future.

  • clive-varejes

    January 3, 2022 at 8:24 am

    Hi guys,
    Wow, thanks so much for the contributions, it makes me feel better that I’m not the only one experiencing these aspects.

    Alan, so far I haven’t experienced the burning sensation in my eyes, although “dry eye” does appear to be happening more often, but maybe it’s simply a sign of ageing and getting p…ed off with myself when I drop things, and knowing it is a result of PD doesn’t really help.

    Robert, the fact that you can’t find your phone etc is not unusual.

    I  have had that hassle for years now, but it probably has nothing to do with PD.In fact the one time I was searching high and low for my glasses when I found them on top of my head.

    Ok, oK, laugh, it may happen to you one day.

    My wife who does not have PD, has her phone/eyeglasses/bag being ” stolen” at least twice a day, that is until she finds where she put them. What can I say.?

    Karla, these people you “grab onto to steady yourself”, can you choose who you “stumble upon? Asking for a friend.??

    I suppose if we don’t laugh about it, it would drive us totally nuts.

    • clive-varejes

      January 3, 2022 at 12:52 am

      Hi Robert,

      Thank you so much for your novella, it certainly brought a smile and occassional laughter, well perhaps more than occassional.

      ” In fact, my hallucinations are downright cheap–no sound, no color, no plot, and very brief. So wimpy are they that I don’t even find them a nuisance.”

      I’m so sorry to hear about this, if you are going to have hallucinations, they should at leasts have the decency to be interesting. Have you tried contacting them to state your displeasure?

      Thus far, I have not experienced the thrashing about in bed, and kicking various objects, however I shall keep this aspect of PD to myself as it may just give my wife an ephinany of why she needs the bed totally to herself.

      I also have no problems driving, however I have experienced double vision on the occassions when I find that a good single malt, an armagnac, or great wines tends to cause this particular afflicition.I would like to assure members of the forum that this is not my choice, however I find and that these various liquors tend to gang up on me and, despite my vigirous protestations, force me to imbibe.    I shall continue the good fight.

      I do have the ‘visual field’ problems, however I have had those before the onset of PD, and have been informed by my neurologist that it is one of the symptoms of my seizures.

      I was diagnosed with ” complex partial seizures of the left temporal lobe” about 14 years ago now.

      Touching on that subject, my wife who does not have PD, is convinced that her mobile, sunglasses etc are stolen at least 3 times a day well until she finds where she has left them.

      And yes, I do experience the emotional side of PD, however again my Neurologist explained to me some time ago that I would experience this, again as a result of my seizures, so I have a double whammy.


  • reuben-altman

    January 6, 2022 at 4:43 pm

    Bumping into things including doorways and knocking things over and dropping things, etc. are probably related to predictable perceptual motor/coordination/fine motor issues. When the seemingly minor or unremembered bumps lead to bruising (sometimes skin tears with occasional bleeding for me), I suspect age is also involved. As we age, our skin thins as we lose the fat layer that ordinarily cushions the common bumps into objects, walls, doorways, and such. That’s what my experience and reading have lead me to conclude on this. I once asked an OT about this and she suggested “Be careful!”. Oh, like I wasn’t?

  • john-citron

    January 10, 2022 at 8:31 am

    My shoulders love to play contact sports with doorways. My right shoulder has a recent battle scar caused by a recent fight with the doorway as I entered the kitchen, and my left shoulder is bruised from another entry or exit from another room. I noticed too that my left shoulder now freezes, and my biceps are sorer than normal. I hope I didn’t do any damage.

    I also have to watch myself on stairs. I have what my doctor says retropulsion, meaning I fall backwards. I suppose it’s better landing on one’s backside than face and knees, but I currently live in a house that M. C. Escher built with stairs. Recently, I fell backwards near the top but was able to catch myself. My fear is this isn’t going to go so well someday!

    Sometimes I teeter when I walk and nearly went down the stairs as I walked down the hallway from one room to another. I reached out to catch my balance on something except the “something” wasn’t there to catch because I was right at the stairwell! I grabbed on to the banister and luckily stopped, otherwise the outcome would have been bad.

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